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Nintendo UK (May 2016)
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Nintendo Classic Mini: NES special interview – Volume 5: Metroid is an interview with Metroid developers Yoshio Sakamoto and Hiroji Kiyotake, conducted by Akinori Sao and published on Nintendo UK's website on May 12, 2016.
Transcript[edit | edit source]
In this section of the interview, Akinori Sao asks Yoshio Sakamoto about the release of the Famicom Family Computer. Hiroji Kiyotake also speaks of lending sales support for a department store as a learning experience.
Akinori Sao: Sakamoto-san, it was your second year at Nintendo in 1983 when the Famicom system was released.
Yoshio Sakamoto: Yes.
Akinori Sao: As a young employee, what did you think of the Famicom?
Yoshio Sakamoto: One time, I had the chance to go observe a developing partner’s factory and that was when I saw the moulded article for the first time.
Akinori Sao: A Famicom before its release?
Yoshio Sakamoto: Yes. The Famicom before mass production. Someone from that company expressed thanks to Nintendo, but I didn’t know what that person was talking about. (laughs) I was in Research & Development 1, which wasn’t directly involved with development of the Famicom, so I didn’t know much about it.
Akinori Sao: Even though you were a Nintendo employee. (laughs)
Yoshio Sakamoto: Yeah. (laughs) I only learned about the release of the Famicom after some time had passed, so I was a little late in becoming aware of it.
Akinori Sao: Kiyotake-san, the Famicom came out the year you entered the company.
Hiroji Kiyotake: That’s right. I was in Research & Development 1 too, which was mainly working on Game & Watch3, but I joined the company right when the Famicom went on sale, so I went to a department store during the Christmas season.
Yoshio Sakamoto: To lend sales support. (laughs)
Hiroji Kiyotake: Yeah – at retailers. (laughs) And when I went to the department store, the Famicom was selling well and even selling out. Then I would recommend other companies’ products! (laughs)
Akinori Sao: Even as a Nintendo employee?! (laughs)
Hiroji Kiyotake: Uh-huh. (laughs)
Yoshio Sakamoto: I went to lend support, too.
Akinori Sao: Oh, really?
Yoshio Sakamoto: I was told that I should, and that it would be a learning experience, so I went to help out at a certain department store in the Kansai region, and all I remember is people asking for discounts. Someone said, “I took a train from far away to buy this, so if I do, throw in a couple free games.” (laughs)
Akinori Sao: (laughs)
Yoshio Sakamoto: So I’m not sure if I really learned anything by going to help out at retailers! (laughs)
In this section of the interview, Akinori Sao congratulates both Yoshio Sakamoto and Hiroji Kiyotake for the 30th anniversary for Metroid. They both speak of Metroid's development, with Hiroji Kiyotake stating they wanted to create something the Super Mario Bros. didn't have.
Akinori Sao:
Today’s topic is Metroid. Congratulations on its 30th anniversary!
Yoshio Sakamoto: Thank you. Has it really been that long?
Hiroji Kiyotake: 30 years have passed, huh?
Akinori Sao: Metroid was originally released for the Family Computer Disk System. How did you come to develop this game?
Yoshio Sakamoto: Development began with just Kiyotake-san and another new employee. My boss at the time was Gunpei Yokoi – whom I mentioned in our discussion about Balloon Fight – and he believed that if you can draw, you can make games.
Akinori Sao: And you left development to these two new designers?
Yoshio Sakamoto: Yes. But while they had both made Game & Watch titles, they didn’t have any experience developing video games for a television.
Akinori Sao: Kiyotake-san, did you feel like saying “Don’t be ridiculous!”?
Hiroji Kiyotake: No, but maybe that was only because we had no clue what development of a video game would be like. Besides, we were told to throw it together any old way, so we didn’t sweat it. (laughs)
Akinori Sao: You worked at your own pace.
Hiroji Kiyotake: Right. And we knew guidance would come in at the end, so we felt like we’d be fine as long as what we had begun making didn’t get canned.
Akinori Sao: Ah, so what did you two new employees have in mind as you began making the game?
Hiroji Kiyotake: As we were working, the Super Mario Bros.6 boom hit. So we wanted to make something that had what Super Mario Bros. didn’t have.
Akinori Sao: What Super Mario Bros. didn’t have? Like what?
Hiroji Kiyotake: As a simple example, you know how Mario slides a little before stopping?
Akinori Sao: Uh-huh…
Hiroji Kiyotake: So we tried to make a dead halt.
Akinori Sao: You began with movement?
Hiroji Kiyotake: Yes. We wanted to make actions that Mario didn’t have. And then…
Yoshio Sakamoto: Aren’t you forgetting something important?
Hiroji Kiyotake: Am I?
Yoshio Sakamoto: Super Mario Bros. is about avoiding enemies.
Akinori Sao: If you touch one, you lose a turn.
Yoshio Sakamoto: In response to that, Kiyotake was complaining, saying, “Why do we have to avoid them?!” (laughs)
Akinori Sao: (laughs)
Yoshio Sakamoto: When you began making Metroid, you wanted a technique called a Screw Attack for doing a spinning jump to defeat enemies. Isn’t that right?
Hiroji Kiyotake: Oh, that’s right! (laughs)
In this section of the interview, Akinori Sao asks both Yoshio Sakamoto and Hiroji Kiyotake how long it took to develop Metroid. Yoshio Sakamoto mentions that he didn't join the development team until the last three months of the game's development, with Hiroji Kiyotake mentioning the game took almost 10 months to finish.
Akinori Sao: How long did it take for the two of you new employees to develop the game?
Hiroji Kiyotake: Almost ten months.
Akinori Sao: As you were working, could you see the end? Did you have a vision of its final form?
Hiroji Kiyotake: Rather than worry about finishing up, we had never made a complete video game before, so we had absolutely no idea of the final product.
Akinori Sao: You didn’t have any experience with regard to how to polish up a game like that.
Hiroji Kiyotake: None at all. At the time, we were just thinking about how we could make it an enjoyable game.
Yoshio Sakamoto: I didn’t join development of Metroid until about the last three months. (laughs)
Akinori Sao: So for nearly ten months, two new employees worked on development, and you joined the team to polish it up in the last three months.
Yoshio Sakamoto: I wasn’t the only one to join. Everyone in Research & Development 1 joined at the end.
Akinori Sao: Earlier, Kiyotake-san mentioned guidance coming in at the end, and that really happened – via mass mobilisation of the department.
Yoshio Sakamoto: That’s right. Everyone in Research & Development 1 contributed to Metroid in some way.
Akinori Sao: How far along was the game when you and the others joined?
Yoshio Sakamoto: To be honest, it was hardly done at all! (laughs)
Akinori Sao: Oh… (laughs)
Yoshio Sakamoto: Everywhere had the same backgrounds and you could only do the same things. The characters were moving, but the rest of the game design was mere bare bones.
Akinori Sao: At that point, was the Metroid aesthetic in place?
Yoshio Sakamoto: Yes. It was dark, with a well-built player-character who hurls through enemies. That was all there.
Akinori Sao: What did you and the others work on?
Yoshio Sakamoto: The first thing I worked on was the main character Samus’ movement.
Hiroji Kiyotake: I had specialised in character design, so I had Samus moving in a variety of fine-tuned movements. But that ate up memory.
Akinori Sao: And if you then added backgrounds and sounds…
Hiroji Kiyotake: It would never fit. So Samus’ movements got drastically reduced. (laughs)
Akinori Sao: Did you think, “No way! I spent almost ten months making those!”?
Hiroji Kiyotake: I was practically in tears, but everyone was helping out, so I didn’t mind them being reduced as long as we were able to complete Metroid.
Yoshio Sakamoto: Then we added all sorts of things, like changing the colour of the backgrounds so players could tell when they had progressed.
Hiroji Kiyotake: Yeah, we did…
Yoshio Sakamoto: But I can’t criticise Kiyotake-san and the other designer. They had jumped straight from Game & Watch into the world of software development for the Family Computer Disk System.
Akinori Sao: That’s like asking someone who has only driven a go-kart to drive a car.
Yoshio Sakamoto: It was just like that! Yokoi-san had said, “If you can draw, you can make games,” to a couple of newbies with no experience making video games, and they had done the best they could.
In this section of the interview, Akinori Sao asks Hiroji Kiyotake about the name of Samus Aran. Akinori Sao also asks how Samus ended up being a woman, which the development team thought would be interesting to do as a surprise for players.
Akinori Sao: Kiyotake-san, weren’t you the one who named Samus Aran?
Hiroji Kiyotake: Yes, I was.
Akinori Sao: About 10 years ago when I did a magazine interview, I heard from Sakamoto-san that you’re a football fan and took that name from the real name of Pelé, the King of Football.
Hiroji Kiyotake: Yeah. (laughs) Even though it may not really be his name…
Akinori Sao: Yeah, it isn’t. (laughs)
Hiroji Kiyotake: I thought so. (laughs)
Akinori Sao: Apparently, you thought Pelé’s real name is Samus Arantes Nascimentos.
Hiroji Kiyotake: Yeah, yeah, something like that.
Akinori Sao: But if you look it up, it’s Edson Arantes do Nascimento.
Hiroji Kiyotake: Yeah, I was totally off! (laughs)
Yoshio Sakamoto: But Arantes was right. (laughs)
Akinori Sao: Yes, that much is! (laughs)
Hiroji Kiyotake: I thought that conjured up the right image, so I used that name.
Akinori Sao: How did you decide to make Samus Aran a woman?
Yoshio Sakamoto: Once we entered the final stage of development, we started talking about having different endings depending on how long it took players to clear the game. We wanted to prepare a reward for people who cleared it more quickly.
Hiroji Kiyotake: We wondered what would surprise everyone and talked about removing Samus’ helmet.
Yoshio Sakamoto: Then someone said, “It would be a shocker if Samus turned out to be a woman!” And everyone thought that would be interesting and wanted to do it, so we decided it right away.
Hiroji Kiyotake: Yeah, we decided that in a flash. Back then, people played games over and over, so we wanted to give a reward for playing through quickly. Then we decided to put in four endings, with Samus removing her helmet or her suit and so forth.
Akinori Sao: As they played, everyone thought Samus was a tough, musclebound guy, but they learned in the end that Samus was a woman.
Yoshio Sakamoto: People who played it back then were shocked. And even now people talk about it like a kind of legend. (laughs)
In this section of the interview, Akinori Sao asks Hiroji Kiyotake how everyone felt once Metroid was completed. Yoshio Sakamoto states that he almost cried when he saw the the game's end credits with everyone's names. Yoshio Sakamoto also mentions being asked by a designer to help on Metroid, which he initially refused to do.
Akinori Sao: You mobilised everyone in Research & Development 1 to finish the game in the last three months. When Metroid was completed, how did you feel, Kiyotake-san?
Hiroji Kiyotake: I was overjoyed! It was especially impressive when we added audio. When just myself and one other person had been working on it, we had only been able to put in simple sounds like “Pew! Pew!” (laughs)
Akinori Sao: (laughs)
Hiroji Kiyotake: And even though we had only moderately developed an aesthetic, it was thrilling when proper audio came in.
Akinori Sao: How about you, Sakamoto-san?
Yoshio Sakamoto: By the time I joined the project, we didn’t have anywhere near the time necessary to make new elements and plug them into the game.
Akinori Sao: Because when you joined the team, it was scheduled for release in three months.
Yoshio Sakamoto: Right. So we used what was available and struggled to figure out what we could do and how we could make it fun.
Akinori Sao: You used what was at hand.
Yoshio Sakamoto: That’s right. Gradually, Metroid grew into a game, and when it was nearly complete, the ending crawl came together with the names of members of the development staff. When I saw that, I almost cried.
Akinori Sao: Uh-huh…
Yoshio Sakamoto: The sense of fulfillment was incredible, so it really hit me.
Akinori Sao: I suppose it was all the more moving because of how difficult it had been.
Yoshio Sakamoto: Yes. Actually, when they asked me to help, I refused at first.
Akinori Sao: Why?
Yoshio Sakamoto: I had a feeling it would be gruelling.
Akinori Sao: (laughs)
Yoshio Sakamoto: Before working on Metroid, I had been working on something else. Then, almost as if the timing were planned and just when I was about finished, a senior designer said, “I’d like to ask you about something.” That designer wondered what we could do for Metroid.
At first, I refused, but that person persuaded me, so in the end I said, “Fine, I’ll do it.” And despite the lack of time and memory, we finished it up in three months. That’s how I became involved with Metroid, and before I knew it, it had practically become my life’s work! (laughs)
Akinori Sao: Yes, indeed it had! (laughs)
In the last section of the interview, Akinori Sao asks Yoshio Sakamoto and Hiroji Kiyotake to give a few words to Metroid fans. Akinori Sao also asks why a special thanks to "TOHRYU MAKO BENKEI" appears in the game's credits.
Akinori Sao: To finish up, would you please say something to the fans about what you hope they will get out of Metroid, which marked its 30th anniversary on the Classic Mini NES?
Hiroji Kiyotake: Well, I hope people who played it 30 years ago will remember what an incredibly difficult time they had clearing it back then.
Akinori Sao: And to first-time players?
Hiroji Kiyotake: I’d like to say, “This is how hard games used to be!” (laughs)
Akinori Sao: (laughs)
Hiroji Kiyotake: And I’d be happy if, as they play, they imagine the greater number of movements that Samus originally had.
Akinori Sao: How about you, Sakamoto-san?
Yoshio Sakamoto: “I want parents to play games with their children.” This is what we often hear, right?
Akinori Sao: Uh-huh.
Yoshio Sakamoto: Well, I hope three generations will play Metroid together. The NES wasn’t just for children. Adults played it back then, too.
Akinori Sao: Yes, that’s right.
Yoshio Sakamoto: Those people eventually became parents and then grandparents.
Akinori Sao: After 30 years, that would be true.
Yoshio Sakamoto: So I strongly hope all three generations will play together. Grandfathers can draw upon their old experience.
Hiroji Kiyotake: And they may be the most skilled! (laughs)
Akinori Sao: It’s quite possible! (laughs)
Yoshio Sakamoto: I’m very interested in knowing what different generations will feel when playing Metroid, a game we made 30 years ago.
Akinori Sao: They could take family trips to hot springs! (laughs)
Yoshio Sakamoto: Yes, I hope three generations will play together at hot springs!
Akinori Sao: There’s one more thing I definitely want to ask about. You mentioned almost crying when the ending came together. But about Benkei Dining, which shows up in the credits…
Yoshio Sakamoto: Oh! (laughs) That’s what you want to ask about so badly?! (laughs)
Akinori Sao: Yes! (laughs) It’s well-known to some fans, but after the credits, it says, “SPECIAL THANKS TO…”
Yoshio Sakamoto: “TOHRYU MAKO BENKEI” shows up, right?
Akinori Sao: Yes.
Yoshio Sakamoto: We were working late every night those last three months, so we ordered from restaurants near the company. Benkei Dining, the Chinese restaurants Tohryu, and another called Sometime Mako, were especially helpful, so we decided to put those three into the credits.
Akinori Sao: I see.
Yoshio Sakamoto: Actually, Tohryu closed quite a while back.
Akinori Sao: Apparently, Benkei Dining closed a few months ago, too. That really brings home the passage of 30 years.
Yoshio Sakamoto: Yes, it really does. It’s too bad.
Hiroji Kiyotake: But if you work hard and clear the game, you can see those credits, and I hope players will check out the different endings for Samus.
Akinori Sao: It’s like a challenge created 30 years ago for people today! (laughs)
Hiroji Kiyotake: Yes, it is. And it’s a tough one.
End of interview
